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March 30, 2010

...can't you tell, this is Austin...

Well, definitely didn't get a post up yesterday, so here's two days in one! It's a bargain deal! And with your bargain post you get more pictures than words! (I'm pretty sure I've worded-out my readers recently anyway. haha)

And now: Two for the price of one!

Yesterday:

Headed out for downtown and the Texas State Capitol. Found a parking lot that was reasonable and trekked the two blocks to the Austin Visitors Center. After taking a few minutes to browse the brochures in case there was something that caught my eye, I grabbed a map of downtown and headed down Congress street to the Texas State Capitol. This is an impressive building seated on an equally impressive lawn. (I do not have a picture of the lawn, for which I do apologize.)


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The rotunda is fabulous.
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That star at the top is 8 feet across, by the way.

The floor contains a lovely mosaic denoting the six national governments in Texas history:
*Kingdom of Spain
*The Republic of Mexico
*Kingdom of France
*Republic of Texas
*Confederate States of America
*United States of America
The Republic of Texas star is in the center with the other five seals surrounding it.

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After touring the State Capitol, I wandered across the grounds to the Capitol Visitors Center. This is the former Texas General Land Office (random fact: the writer O. Henry [William Sydney Porter] worked here as a draftsman.).

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I made my way to St. Mary's Cathedral arriving just in time for the Holy Monday mass. Although I am not a Roman Catholic, there was something enthralling in participating in the corporate worship of the mass, even with abstaining from partaking in the sacrament of communion. In the interior picture, you might notice that the icons are shrouded. Here's why.

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After this there was some random wandering around which included passing the Austin Convention Center...

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...and the Austin City Hall.

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Oh, and I had a lovely walk along the Colorado River.

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Eventually, I returned to my car, drove up Commerce Street on my way to the Texas State Cemetery. Yes. I am one of those people who enjoys walking through cemeteries. What?

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Also, it should be noted that here is where I saw possibly the largest flag ever.

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For scale purposes, this is the bottom of its flag pole.

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Finally, I went to the Bob Bullock Texas State History Museum, AKA three full floors of Texas awesomeness. The exhibits are really great, spanning the story of Texas from the days of the Native American tribes to modern days, the Spanish armor to astronaut uniforms. It was well worth the time.

Then, after dinner, the three of us went to Halcyon Coffee House for a late night snack of S'Mores. Yes, that's right. You get to make S'Mores at your table. With fire. Win.

Today:

Today, because yesterday did not involve enough walking, I decided to do some more. I started with the Lyndon Baines Johnson Library and Museum. I was really excited about this since I can honestly say that I knew very little about President Johnson or his terms in office. I thoroughly enjoyed my visit. The museum is quite well done (and free of charge). I have to admit to crying at the Kennedy assassination exhibit. Just the mere fact that Johnson was able to step into the presidency in such dark circumstances and be successful speaks a great deal of the man.


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Then I trekked around the campus of University of Texas. I felt rather odd and conspicuous as I had no backpack or, in fact, bag of any kind with me and nowhere in particular to go. I did take some pictures (of course.)

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After this, lunch at Schlotsky's followed by not enough time at the Blanton Museum of Art. I failed to take any pictured here, however. I do apologize. The building itself is lovely with a stunning foyer to which the linked picture cannot do justice.

In all, the past two days have been quite lovely and adventuresome and filled with learning and exploring. (Did I get enough conjunctions in there?) Tomorrow: the Mayfield Cottage and Gardens followed by Mt. Bonnell. Obviously I haven't done enough walking around. :-P

PS. All of these pictures, plus a few more, may be found here.

March 28, 2010

Yo, Asclepius! I'ma let you finish....

But I just gotta say...Austin deserves this spot for a few days.

Yes, I know. But I really wanted to do it. hahaha So rather than stay at home for all of Easter Break, I'm spending a few days in Austin. The drive was...long. Actually, not all of it was long. It was actually a very nice drive, even though between Beaumont and Houston is just oh so boring. Houston itself just sprawls out forever, it seems. After about 30 minutes, you start to wonder if there actually is a boundary to Houston, or if it has somehow taken over all of southwest Texas in the night. Also, once you get to Houston you begin to see a trademark of Texas in general: flags. Seriously. Not just any flags, either, but the largest flags possible to be flown are generally flown. It's both awesome and slightly bonkers at the same time. Not only that, but if you see a super huge American flag, about 85% of the time it will be accompanied by an equally super huge Texas flag. I've seen more Texas state flags in the past two days than I think I've ever seen of my own state flag. It's kind of amazing.

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After arriving yesterday, I spent some time catching up with my friend, then I had to roust out an Apple store. The reason for this was my complete ineptness at managing to grab my power cable when I grabbed my laptop. Yes. This mistake turned out to be more costly than I would have liked, but now I have a backup cable. Awesome. Since I was out, I decided to drive around downtown a little. This turned out to be moderately exciting due to the fact that it was dark. And I had really no idea where I was going, GPS notwithstanding. Fun touch: Marge has a British accent. Quite fun.

Today we went to church here. Humorous aside: my church in BR is also Crossroads Community Church. Weird. In the afternoon, we went to Zilker Botanical Gardens. It was quite a lovely walk, although more people-filled than I would usually like for such an excursion due to the Zilker Garden Festival that was happening. At any rate, the weather was perfect and the gardens a beautiful and calming way to spend the afternoon.

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Tomorrow: downtown is to be tackled.

March 17, 2010

the realm of Asclepios: comment response

I think the fear of nationalized health care is not so much a decrease in life expectancy but an increase in inefficiency. I think the other concern is the wait time for things that doctors deem a non-emergency that COULD be an emergency, leading to a poorer quality of care. Then there's the whole argument I've heard about nationalized health care bloating the national debt...

There are issues with the HCR bill as it is now, such as covering a woman's right to choose for example, that make it less than appealing. Should that be covered? Hmm...

And dude, the New Yorker articles ARE loooooooooooong.

This comment brought up some things that I would like to deal with in a longer manner than I could in a responding comment, so here goes:

These are all good points. I chose the life expectancy stats due to the fact that typically poorer quality of care (including waiting an extended amount of time for what turns out to be an emergency procedure) would adversely affect those statistics. Life expectancy statistics take into account access to health care as well as the diseases prevalent as the data are being compiled, so they do account in some measure for health care and would be a reflection (in general) of poorer quality care. (Two interesting articles on life expectancy in the US: ; ) Further, life expectancy has a distinct correlation with poverty levels (International Journal of Epidemiology abstract; ; abstract of Cornell U study). Poverty levels lead not only to greater stress factors, but a typically a lack of medical care (Medicaid coverage arguably not extending far enough up the income ladder to make up for income disparity in the entire working class.).

Here are some mortality statistics to flesh out the LE statistics:
deaths from circulatory disease
*We tie with the UK.
overall deaths from cancer
*We are statistically higher than the UK by almost 70 people per 100,000.
This despite a higher rate of cancer treatment success as I noted in the post. The reason for this is probably due to those who are uninsured or underinsured delaying treatment or not seeking treatment. I don’t actually have statistics to back up the discrepancy b/w cancer treatment success rates and a higher rate of cancer deaths overall, that’s just my surmise.
deaths from heart disease
*We are lower than the UK by 16 per 100,000. A small per capita betterment, probably due in part to increased awareness of heart problems and more common screening.
maternal mortality rate
*Interestingly, our maternal mortality rate 1 higher per 100,000 than the UK.
probability of reaching the age of 65 or above for males
* The UK has 4% higher probability.
same stat for females
*The UK has 3% higher probability.
--this is likely due to the much greater focus on preventative care and health maintenance fostered by a program where the out-of-pocket cost of said preventative care and maintenance is largely nil. Thus, general health problems are caught early, dealt with early, and managed while still minor. Here, people often avoid the GP (interestingly, we have a far lower rate of GPs than most European countries due to the prestige and lucrative salaries of specializing which does make it harder to see a GP for preventative care.) and wait until they are symptomatic then see a specialist.
male mortality rate per 1,000 male adults
*We rank 144th from the highest, the UK ranks 171st. In other words, out of 193 countries noted, they rank 27 nations better than us.
--Mortality rate is defined as the probability of dying between the ages of 15 and 60, ie. the probability that a 15 year old will die before reaching the age of 60.
WHO mortality rates
*Notice that we just don't top the list here. (Although, it does seem that Germans have some serious cardiovascular issues....)
article discussing what life expectancy and adult mortality rates mean

Now, as far as wait times in a nationalized system, I picked the UK since it has what would most likely be the model used if we ever adopted a single-payer system: a nationalized health system that also has a flourishing small, secondary private market. Canada tried for a long time to eliminate the private market altogether which seems to have caused more harm than good, a trend it is now trying to reverse.
NHS report on waiting times
*Note: this is the wait time between being referred to a specialist by a GP and beginning actual treatment (ie all prelim tests have been done and discernable treatment is begun with the specialist). Patients in the UK see their primary care physician (GP, which we really have too few of here—a change that should be made and is addressed in the WH proposal.
more NHS wait time figures.
And here is an incredibly good article comparing some basics in health care wait times: Commonwealth Fund comparison
*You’ll notice that the numbers for seeing a specialist and the numbers for seeking elective surgery in the UK aren’t great, but these are 2005 numbers, and the previously linked NHS reports show the decrease in the following four years.
And our wait time record is getting worse.
Again, this has somewhat to do with a lack of focus on GPs and preventative care as well as delaying treatment causing more extensive and immediate treatment, all issues addressed in HCR.
Businessweek article regarding increased wait times in the US (author also relates part of the problem to not enough GPs which is a focus of the WH HCR proposal).

Small aside:interestingly, having a scheduling consultant teach hospitals new ways to view and handle scheduling could make an incredible difference in wait times even with the increased patients that HCR might bring into the system on a regular basis.


As far as an increase in inefficiency goes, it would be very difficult to make comparisons here. All I can really say about that is:
1) the transition here is largely one of how private insurance premiums are paid. In other words, doctors will still largely be paid by private insurance just as they are now except now the risk pool will be substantially larger, premium payments will be subsidized for those who cannot afford or struggle to afford them, insurance companies will compete on an evened playing field where consumers can compare plans easily (as opposed to the incredibly complex and varying way they have to be compared now--can someone say "standardized terms, please" haha), and there will be federally standardized minimum coverage expectations to even out the bottom line on coverage.
2) the US military has a completely nationalized health care system that seems to work fairly efficiently. Yes, there are exceptions where care standards have been ignored until attention was paid, but that's typically the exception and not the rule.
3) bringing complete single payer into the picture would actually simplify paperwork for the most part (exempting the private health coverage and care system that would likely exist alongside as it does in the UK).
4) there was some other point I had, but while I was typing the first one, I forgot. I just wanted everyone to know I had a really great fourth point that vanished into the maelstrom that is my mind right now. :-P It had something to do with overhead and advertisement and Medicaid/Medicare and something something. If I ever remember it, I'll put it in later. haha.
Bonus: the UK has a really interesting service that allows you to find and compare health care services as well as choose a provider and book an appointment. This would seem to suggest that in some ways nationalization could actually increase efficiency. /bonus.

The WH has addressed in general this fear of increasing the deficit. The CBO also reported (and I don't have the link to the report summary on me right now--it's probably on the WH site somewhere. This WaPo article is the closest I can get you currently.) that over time, HCR would actually lower government spending and the deficit. This has a lot to do with the fact that HCR would lower and slow the growth of health care costs over time. Because the FG ends up spending a significant of money on health care and coverage already (largely in emergency ways--covering uninsured in the emergency room, etc.--and thus less efficiently than through HCR), lowering and slowing the growth of health care costs has a significant impact on the deficit projections. If that makes sense. Frankly, if we really want to deal with the deficit (a deficit that we have had for almost the entirety of our history and has been significantly worse in comparison with the GDP, btw), we should focus and raise efficiency on defense spending. It's currently quite inefficient now. And I'm a hawkish type person, so this isn't about fighting or not fighting wars, but prioritizing defense spending. Anyway, that's a slight rabbit trail, but the bottom line is, the deficit will be far greater down the road if nothing is done about health care costs and coverage now, even with the initial cost outlay. I think it's a relevant and significant point here that the NHS in the UK was established in 1948. For 62 years, the UK has managed to run an almost completely nationalized health care system (I found that roughly 8%-11% of health care/coverage is through private funds, largely as a supplement to NHS services). Although HCR here is not looking to nationalize health care in any way (aside from an expansion of Medicaid), the fact is that it can be done without bankrupting the country. I suspect there are similar findings to be had regarding Australia and Germany, etc., but I'm about statisticed out. hahaha.

As far as funding abortion goes, the Hyde Amendment basically prohibits federal monies from funding abortions. The only way that might be considered changed in this situation is that subsidy money could be applied to premiums for plans that cover abortion services. Yet, federal job salaries could be used to pay for the premiums of plans that cover abortion services. There has been suggestions of having abortion services coverage be an unfunded rider (eg, it's an addition, like maternity coverage, but the insured would have to pay for that part of the premium on their own). For me, the inclusion of plans that cover abortion services in the insurance exchange and the use of subsidies to pay the premiums of plans that might also cover abortion services is not a huge deal. Granted, I think that HCR should include good contraceptive coverage, thus minimizing the issue in the first place; but, given the small percentage of persons to whom this situation would even apply, and given that anyone who receives any federal salary could use that money for abortions or insurance that covers abortions, I think the Hyde Amendment limits this enough. This isn't like the FG suddenly offering to pay for everyone's abortions with taxpayer money all the time. This is merely that some people might purchase insurance that covers abortion services and those premiums could be subsidized. As far as I know, this doesn't even affect current Medicaid policy. I know for some people, it's a huge issue, but I think this is a case where a mole hill is being made into a mountain. That is, of course, merely my opinion. I don't expect everyone to see it (or any of this, for that matter) the way I do. :-)

And yes, those articles are looooooong. But they are so, so good. Seriously. If you only read one, read the one about McClaren, Texas. It's quite informative and really important to understanding the issues behind escalating health care costs. They are ridiculously long, though; I won't argue with you there. haha.

March 16, 2010

the realm of Asclepios: part 3

Previous entries summary in 3...2...1...

I covered these two premises: 1) receiving health care is not an inalienable right, 2) it is not the designated role of government to run health care. Regarding the first, I explained here and here that whether or not receiving health or having affordable health coverage is an inalienable right, it is best for society as a whole to pursue the goal of ensuring that the highest number of Americans have access to affordable health coverage and available health care. I pointed out that in other areas (namely education), it has been long understood that it an item not seen as an inalienable right of humans is nevertheless viewed as a beneficial item to provide to as many people as possible. Regarding the second, I noted here and here that there are several (I outlined five in particular) areas where while it is not the designated role of government to involve itself, it is nevertheless positive and even necessary for it to become involved for the good of its citizenry.

Tackling the third premise, that this country would be not only ill-affected itself while also ill-affecting others were we to find ourselves in the midst of a limiting and narrowly run system: now!

Since HCR has been proposed, concern has been raised as to how it would affect the quality of care that we have available here. That is a legitimate concern. There is something to be said for living in a country with a higher physician rate per capita than either of our closest neighbors. We also have more MRI machines and CT scanners than our closest neighbors (and the UK). Of course, more doesn't always mean they're used in a better manner; but still, in the most obvious areas of technological health care advancement, the US get high marks. As I've noted previously, though, accessibility to said technology is limited by the costs. The argument behind HCR is that medical technology should be more accessible to everyone. In fact, the question could be asked, "What is the point of having one of the most advanced medical systems in the world if it cannot be accessed affordably by the entirety (or almost the entirety) of the population? In assuring that this affordable access occurs, though we must be careful not to inhibit the strength of the medical system we would like everyone to enjoy.

Small sideline: Even in the realm of pharmaceuticals, we must take care to exercise caution. A case can be made that pharmaceutical companies make an incredibly high margin of profit. (see also here and here.) The ability to make a decent-sized (to say the least) profit is one reason that so many pharmaceutical companies choose to headquarter in the US. Of course, when profit margins are considered, it is also advisable to consider the cost and time required to bring a new drug to market. Although there is a range of numbers on cost and time, the general consensus is that it costs at a minimum over $800,000,000 and 5 to 10 years depending on the drug. (sources: here, here, here, here, and here.) Valid criticism has arisen over the pharma industry, not so much because of the profit margins involved, but the skyrocketing amount of money spent on advertising. (table taken from this NEJM article) Another growing criticism concerns CEO salaries. Now, it's certainly a different debate to consider what CEOs should be paid and whether they large portion of their salary should be salary or stock options, etc.; however, in relationship to HCR, I think it's more important to look at where pharma money (particularly federal research money) is going rather than merely the profit margins. Pharma research has entered the stage of very narrowly focused research for finding treatments of very specific diseases and symptoms. This costs more money and takes more time. Phara companies should be given the leeway they need to conduct more and more advanced research in a profitable manner, else they would be reluctant to take research risks, but they should be kept from unethical profit (such as evergreening to extend patents and block generic competition) and spending practices that hurt the most needy consumers of all: the ill who need their products. This is a fine line to walk for reform, but the right set of regulations can do it.

Now, back to the more at-point topic: reform without crippling medical technology and system quality. One of the comparisons that is often used to protest government involvement is the comparison with Canada and Britain. Of course, all of my readers can call to mind anecdotal tales of delayed or denied care in both of these systems. Conversely, Canadians and Britons can blithely recite anecdotal tales of denied insurance application and exorbitant health care bills that lead to insolvency and bankruptcy. Anecdotal evidence is a part of the picture, but should always be recognized as just that: a part of the picture. There are pros and cons to every system. A better way to look at things is to look at the overall numbers and then discuss why HCR as it is currently proposed will serve to focus health care rather than limit it.

Let's look at some important statistics from the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development (OECD). Now, while all statistics are dependent for their accuracy upon the data used and submitted, it is worth noting that by and large, the countries listed in this data have no history or reason to manipulate the data on any large and systemic scale.

First, let's look at the amount of money that countries spend on health care:
WHO statistics on per capita spending
*Notice that the US government spends more per capita on health care even though the US citizenry spends more private money than in any other of the compared countries. (Note: I include Switzerland because of their mandatory and subsidized private health coverage system...in other words, similar to what's on the table; but more on that later.)

OECD data on per capita health care spending
*Notice that the US spends considerably more than any other comparable nation.

Now, these statistics on expenditure cannot stand alone. After all, if the end result of the spending was considerably better/of more value than the end result of health care spending in other nations, it would certainly be worth the extra cost. The statistics fail to support this scenario, however. Instead, we spend significantly more on health care in the US for essentially the same results as our peer nations. Of course, there are variable in any set of statistics, for example: when it comes to cancer survival rates, the US ranks quite high, consistently scoring higher than Europe as a whole. This figure can vary from state to state and ethnicity to ethnicity even within the US, though, and is due in part to widespread awareness and early screening practices. This high mark does not extend to all areas though, with the US ranking low on diabetes and asthma care. Something to keep in mind when considering the health care system in the US is that our one country has the variable rates of most groups of countries, with regions and state playing large roles in the quality and cost of care (Another reason why a federal minimum standard would help provide more consistent basic and preventive care across the board.) In general, though, life expectancy statistics are used to determine the overall quality and effectiveness of health care. Here is where the rubber of dollars spent meets the road of product received. The numbers don't show that, in this case, more money equals better product:
OECD life expectancy data
*Notice that for all those extra dollars spent, life expectancy is not extended in the US beyond the countries with health care systems we love to hate.
WHO life expectancy data
*The fact is, our total expenditure on health care is twice that of the UK, and they live, on average, a year longer.

And let's get down to the nitty gritty on life expectancy: seniors. I mention this statistic in particular because of the rampant discussion about how government involvement will lessen care given to and money spent to care for seniors. Senior citizens are the most expensive group to cover when it comes to health coverage and health care; therefore, it has been suggested that spending less and having government regulation will result in less care given to seniors, thus shorter life expectancy after a certain age. The statistics tell a different story, however:
OECD date on female life expectancy at 65
OECD data on male life expectancy at 65
*There is little noticeable difference between the major countries of comparison. In fact, in some cases, we fall behind other countries. Of course, there will be some variable depending on family history, ethnic group, and standard vices of choice (we are the nation of the obese, while other nations are the nations of smokers and drinkers). When it all evens out, though, the fact is...it's pretty even. We are spending more and more each year than our national counterparts without the things to show for it that we should have: increased life expectancy, above all, even among seniors where one would expect to see a difference if, in fact, nationalized health care really did result in the care rationing of which we have heard claims.

(Note: I am not including infant mortality rates due to uncertainty as to consistency of standards when labeling a "live birth." These standards can vary from country to country, and I'm unable to find a good database to use in the discussion; thus causing me to choose to leave that statistic out. It is relevant to note, though, that when taking into consideration the ability and standard practice of making all concerted efforts to save every child delivered by eliminating risky/premature births from the equation, we would end up running about even with our peer nations from what I can tell/have read.)

I know I seem to have gone far afield of my initial premise, but I want to show that fears of narrowing the health care system are, in most cases, unfounded. While we have significantly more advanced technology at our disposal than many of our peer nations, and a tendency to use it for screening purposes, when it comes to basic care and life expectancy, our way of paying is not garnering better results. There are many reasons why this is so, but one of the most significant ones is the way we pay for services: by procedure. In paying by procedure, we spend more money for the same battery of tests than we would pay if paying by treatment regimen or by hours spent. (Lest you think paying per procedure is necessary to produce a high level of quality care, I offer up The Mayo Clinic. There's a significant reason why it's the touted model for health care payment model change.) This idea of changing the way we pay for health care is just one of the pilot ideas contained in the HCR bills up for a vote. The New Yorker has an an excellent article about these programs and how they can impact provider side costs over time. (If you didn't/haven't read the New Yorker article I posted previously, take the time to do so. It's quite thought provoking.)

Thus, statistics show that while we are paying much, much more, our medical system is, in general, not significantly better. I have shown all this to point out that even were we to adopt a completely nationalized system after the model of Britain's NHS, we would likely not experience any deficit or narrowing of care. Yes, there might be a change in waiting periods while a shift in medical personnel numbers was made to accommodate patient number change, meaning that there could be longer waits for non-emergency appointments. This is not a new concept, though, as anyone who has tried to make an appointment as a new patient knows. (Furthermore, a point that I may address later is the issue of the AMA having a great deal of control on the number of medical students allowed each year as a means of controlling the amount of doctors outside of the supply/demand function.) This, of course, brings up a not insignificant question: if our opposition to change is that we may have to wait longer to see a doctor, what's the real issue here--the wait time, or our attitude? But I'll leave that question to my lovely readers to ponder whilst moving on to something else.

There is a more significant reason why HCR as it is proposed will not narrow the quality of availability of care: all of the HCR proposals continue to use private health care as we know it. Yes, that's right. Although the words "government takeover" and "socialism" have been bandied about, the truth of the matter is that these reforms make essentially no change in the nature of who provides health care nor who pays them. Please note this, if you note nothing else I've said--these HCR proposals are not, are not, socializing the health care system. Notice: here is a comparison I created (using the Kaiser Family Foundation comparison tool) between the House plan, the Senate plan, and the President's proposal. I used the term "state role." (I know the picture is small. Feel free to go and enter the search terms to see it larger.) Every item mentioned concerns how health coverage is paid for and regulated. There is no mention of health care providers because health care providers will not be employed by the state. Again, notice in this CBS news basic run-down there is no mention of employing health care providers or a "takeover" of health care. That is because the only area in which any HCR proposal increases government payment of health care personnel is in the expansion of Medicaid and possibly Medicare eligibility. Health care is still a private industry under all three major HCR proposals. In fact, calling this "health care reform" is largely a mistake. It is more appropriately "health coverage reform." Health care will still remain a private industry. The changes here are in how the bills are paid, not who provides health care. (I will discuss the issue of a single payer system in a further post, but that is not what is under consideration at this time, thus I am not discussing it here.) In other words, it will not narrow the care that is available at all. The health care available is still the same; HCR merely allows a significantly higher number of people to access it without worry. Under all three major HCR proposals, the system will be run exactly the same way. In fact, with the added competition of clear coverage plan comparisons, the pilot programs proposed to curb health care costs, and possibly a clear comparison of health care costs through different providers, the system has the potential to become more streamlined and therefore better than it currently is. Whatever the future for streamlining and honing health care, the fact remains that these proposals aren't about who runs or controls health care. They are about making health coverage affordable so that technologically advanced health care system we have is accessible for almost the entire population without the risk of insolvency. Thus, the third premise is tackled: limiting our system would serve us ill, but that is not what these proposals do.

There are a few things I would like to tackle further, especially as this post ended up going in a slightly different direction than I anticipated when I began planning it. Thus, there will be an "addendum" that deals briefly with the use of the word "socialism," briefly with the nature of the "public option," and briefly with single-payer or "nationalized" healthcare.

nota bene:
You can find a list of many of the HCR sources I linked as well as few I have not here. Have fun!